DATE: June 26, 1980

MAC GREGOR: After I got out of work that night…Well, as we was leaving the plant, I
noticed a couple of fellows running towards the parking lot. Later, I discovered they
were, I think, Pinkerton men. And they had … in their hands and I presume that they
were what they used to fire those tear-gas bombs.

WEST: Oh, really? That was outside of … When was that?

MAC GREGOR: Well, they had run from Plant 6, I believe it was. That's where the
union had tried to pull this and get their men to go to that plant first and then that way,
why, …

WEST: Oh, yeah. I think actually that was Chevy 9. Chevrolet 9 that they were
involved in and there was a decoy there. They were going to take over Chevrolet 4. So
you remember that night, then?

MAC GREGOR: Well, it was in the afternoon, if I recall correctly.

WEST: And you were just coming to work then?

MAC GREGOR: I was leaving work. They had shut the plant down. At that time they'd
gone right on strike. And the committeeman, or the fellow that led us, those that didn't
show up, they shut the machine for 'em, see. And he says, "We're on strike!" And so
most of us filed out. There's a few that didn't go.

WEST: That was at Chevy 10?

MAC GREGOR: Yeah, at Chevy 10.

WEST: You were on strike there too. So you left. That would have been early
February, wouldn't it have been?

MAC GREGOR: If I recall.

WEST: But the strike had been on, hadn't it, at Fisher 1 and 2, for a month, before that,
hadn't it? all during January, I guess, and you didn't sit down then. Can I ask you, Mr.
MacGregor, are you a native of Flint? Were you born in Flint?

MAC GREGOR: No, I was born in Grand Rapids. The funny part of it was Grand
Rapids, being a furniture town, you'd see fellows with fingers and arms and hands off.
You know they'd get 'em caught in the saws, and, boy, that isn't for me! Went in the
automobile shop and I got a finger off.

WEST: Oh, Lord! So what year was that you were born, then, in Grand Rapids?


WEST: 1898. So you lived in Grand Rapids for a few years, did you, then?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, my father and mother, they divorced when I was about five years
of age, and I'd go and live with one for a while and I'd go and live with the other for a

WEST: I see. Did you go to schools, then, in the Grand Rapids area?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I started in school in Grand Rapids, but I didn't go there very
long. Most of my schooling I got in Owosso. My mother and stepfather lived there.

WEST: I see. What did your father do for a living? What was his occupation?

MAC GREGOR: My father? Well, he was a blacksmith by trade, but he never kept any
job very long.

WEST: So a "rolling stone," as it were. When did you come to Flint, then, sir?

MAC GREGOR: Well, let me see. It was in latter part of '27. I had been living in
Detroit, and I was selling aluminum, you know, where they was giving those
demonstrations in homes? And the manager was there in Detroit. I was making fairly
good there, in Detroit. And the manager wanted to branch out and he wanted to know if
they would be someone to volunteer to go over to Flint, so another fellow and myself did.
Well, just about the time of changeover, you couldn't give that stuff away.

WEST: People from the shops couldn't buy, then, during the shift?

MAC GREGOR: No, they couldn't buy it, 'cause they weren't working. Well, the result
was I used up all my surplus money, so I had had experience in automobile shops, and

WEST: Where had you had that experience in the auto shops?

MAC GREGOR: Right after World War I, after I got out of the service, that was my
second job. I worked for Ford Motor Company for five years and ten months. You
know, a funny thing: I worked at Ford Motor Company for five years and ten months,
and in all that time, I only saw Mr. Henry Ford just once. That was just by accident.
They was a group of prominent men that came to town, Burbank, and Firestone, and they
was one or two others. They come together, and that power plant up there on Woodward
Avenue was Henry Ford's baby, and of course he had to take them up and show it to 'em.
And I was just leaving the plant from work one day, and they just happened to be crossin'
my path. And I can remember Henry hadn't quite seized himself, and he was still
standin' up in the car, looked at me kind of curiously. But Edsel, you generally would
see him around the plant once or twice a year.

WEST: But Henry Ford didn't come around to visit the plants then, to tour through the

MAC GREGOR: If he did, it was just in the office and give orders. But to go through
the shop, I never saw him.

WEST: What were the conditions like then in the Ford plant?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, brother, it was just like it was here! I got several foremanship jobs
there to Ford's, because there was so many foreign-born people there and blacks that
didn't have any education. And, boy, if you even had an eighth-grade education, if you
was white, why, you could be on supervision. Well, I didn't like the idea of asking a man
to do something I wouldn't want to do myself. It griped me. And, you know, that five
dollars a day…

WEST: I was going to ask you about that five dollars a day, because Ford was famous
for that.

MAC GREGOR: Oh, you earned it.

WEST: And people talked about Ford being a good employer, you know.

MAC GREGOR: Oh, it used to be kind of a joke; not really a joke, either. But they used
to say that they could always tell a Ford worker as soon as he set down in the streetcar,
that he'd gone to sleep or he'd dead.

WEST: So the place was very hectic.

MAC GREGOR: Well, most of the jobs that they had at Ford's were several shifts. You
know, one or two or three shifts. Eight hours. What they would want the foreman to do.
You had a board up there to mark down your hourly production and, just before the shift
was over, you'd exaggerate that so that the next shift would try to beat it.

WEST: So you had about five years, nearly six years, at Ford. And then you quit Ford?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I had a chance to go to work with Hudson, so I did there about a
year and a half, and then they slacked off. I worked for Standard Oil. And there's
another funny thing about Standard Oil. At that time they had a thirty-year retirement
plan, see. But they had no union there. You could work there 29 years, and they could
find some excuse to can you.

WEST: And you had no protection. You'd lose your retirement.

MAC GREGOR: That's right.

WEST: So you came up, then, to Flint, with the aluminum business later in 1927. And
you couldn't sell, so you went to work in the shop.


WEST: Did you go to work at Chevrolet?

MAC GREGOR: That's right.

WEST: And was it Chevy 10, then, that you went to work for first?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I worked at various plants. I started out in Plant 4. But every
year, especially if you didn't have any seniority or were single, at the time of the
changeover, you were laid off. Well, you took your own chances at what job or where
you'd work when you come back. Well, this…I worked there in the crankshafts for three
years, drawin' cranks, and at the third year, why, I was laid off, and quite a spell. And so
I went up to the employment office. Well, they says, "The only thing we have is sheet
metal." "Here I'll take anything. I got to eat."

WEST: So that was just during the Depression, wasn't it, that was Depression, then?

MAC GREGOR: Well, yeah, that would be about the start of the Depression.

WEST: 1930 or so. So you worked at sheet metal, then, in another Chevy plant?

MAC GREGOR: I stayed with sheet metal until retirement.

WEST: Oh, I see. What kind of work did you do, then, at the time of the strike?

MAC GREGOR: Setting dies. You might term it a semi-skilled job. You didn't have to
have an education. You just have to have experience.

WEST: Some experience. What sort of work did that involve?

MAC GREGOR: Well, placing the dies in the presses. See, those presses were designed
so that you could take a die in or take it out, whichever you wanted to do, and, of course,
there's none of them that stayed in there permanently. You had to change back and forth.

WEST: Yes. So you set the dies in there. Was that a dangerous job?

MAC GREGOR: Well, yes and no. You had to be careful.

WEST: Did they have any guards on the machines?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, yeah. I will say this much for Chevrolet, that is, after the union
got in there, they were very, very careful. Before that, I got my finger taken off in '32.
At that time, they had no union and no safety. The foreman was puttin' me on that
machine. He had had an order in to have it repaired, but the repairman was busy, and they
couldn't respond to the order. And so he went on to operate it. Do you know there was
two other fellows that lost their fingers in the same press in the same die after I lost mine?

WEST: Oh, my. How did that happen, then? The press just come down at the wrong

MAC GREGOR: Yeah. At that time, they didn't have anything to stop the press from
dropping. You know, when we make the revolution, you get up to the top, they had,
well, you might call it a dog. It'd slip into kind of a gear or cog, and that was supposed to
stop it. But if it missed, by Jesus, the dies would weigh several tons, you know, the
weight of it would drop just like that. Well, I using tongs, but my tongs evidently were
not long enough for the job. And it cut my finger off at an angle, like that, so to make a
decent lookin' …, they had to amputate the rest of it. You know, another thing. Old doc.
I found out later he was getting a commission out of all he saved the company on the
amputations. He tried to convince me that I couldn't get what I was legally entitled to. I
went down to Lansing, to the Department of Industrial Labor. You know it was difficult
for me to find anybody who'd give me any information down there? They had 'em all
scared at 'em. But I finally located a guy, and he give me a little booklet or two to tell
you what the laws was. Well, old doc, every time I'd go in there to have my finger
dressed, "Well, come on, Gladdy, let's get this thing over and get this settled. I want to
write you up and get it settled." Well, I told him, I says, "I've been down to the
Department of Industrial Labor." "Oh, you have?" I says, "Yes, and you're not offering
what they…" "Oh," he says, "they don't know what they're talking about down there."
And, well, I says, "I put in for a hearing before the Department of Industrial Labor, and
I'll wait until we have a hearing." "Oh, you're not gonna gain anything by it." "Well, as
long as I've gone this long, I might as well go along with it." Do you know that the day
before I was to have it, they sent a minimum amount, you know, of various cities, the
Department of Industrial Labor had hearings. The day before I was supposed to have a
hearing, he called me at home. He says, "Gladdy," he says, "I got good news for you."
He says, "I can pay you the full amount."

WEST: So you did get compensation for your injury.

MAC GREGOR: Well, I got the full amount. But I was entitled to it legally, you know,
according to the rules.

WEST: Would you have gotten more more for that injury after the union?

MAC GREGOR: That I don't. I really don't know. But, you know, Jesus, at that time, I
had no protection. I was takin' a big chance to go over there to the Department of
Industrial Labor to find out, because they could have canned me and I wouldn't have had
any come back. That's one of the things that me join the union. I realized then how
ineffective an individual would be against a big corporation.

WEST: Yes. Was there unionism in your family, in your background, before you came
to Flint? Was your father involved in unions at all?

MAC GREGOR: Well, no. My dad, he paid with the union, but he says, "They'll never
make it."

WEST: He was just pessimistic.

MAC GREGOR: Oh, very much so.

WEST: When did you first join the auto union?

MAC GREGOR: Well, when they made a ruling there in Washington, and President

WEST: Oh, yes. The NRA. Came in 1933.

MAC GREGOR: Yes, the NRA. Well, I joined the union at that time, but I kept my
button concealed.

WEST: You could have been fired had they seen it.

MAC GREGOR: Yeah, that's right.

WEST: Well, that was an AFL union, wasn't it? Did they do much for you?

MAC GREGOR: No. I always figured that we got kind of sold out on that deal.

WEST: That was you were working in Chevrolet 10, were you, at that time?

MAC GREGOR: I was working at Chevrolet then, uh-huh.

WEST: Then you weren't very happy then with the union for a while there, when it was
under the AFL?

MAC GREGOR: Well, you had your back against the wall. You had to do something.
It just seemed like you was just losing ground all the time. Now, when I worked at
crankshafts, we worked a full eight-hour day and five days a week. Well, I got
transferred over here to sheet metal. If they didn't have work for you, they'd send you
down the basement. You'd stay there until they got ready for you. Well, if you didn't
get any pay for the times you spent in the basement. And at that time, they paid out---it
was either every other week or twice a month, I know it wasn't weekly-----but the first
two weeks I worked over there, I got in 19 hours. I got in one full eight-hour day and the
others were just partial days. You couldn't live on that.

WEST: No, you certainly couldn't. But you had to stick around, in case there might be

MAC GREGOR: Yeah. Well, you didn't have money enough to quit.

WEST: No, I should say not. So were you being paid straight time then or piecework?

MAC GREGOR: Well, it was what they call "bonus." You had a straight time, which is
very little, and then your bonus is supposed to make it up, see. And there was another
funny thing. They would post your bonuses everyday, what you made, on a board. A
day before that bonus was supposed to go in, it'd either take a hell of a drop.

WEST: Did they explain why it dropped?

MAC GREGOR: No. And if you asked any questions, brother, you could get fired, too.

WEST: Could you ever make the maximum which you were supposed to make?

MAC GREGOR: I don't recall ever makin' the full amount.

WEST: Do you remember what it would have amounted to, about an average per hour?

MAC GREGOR: Well, at that time, it was right around 60 cents an hour. It was average
that in the sheet metal. And if it had been efficient, like it should have been, we should
have been making about a buck an hour.

WEST: Big difference. What relationship did you have with your foreman? Did you get
along pretty well?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, not bad. There's a few pushers. Course they always wanted you
to…Used to be a standing joke. If you had to keep movin' and had to keep your hands
movin', your feet movin', you had to have a broom suck up the erection!

WEST: You had to show that you were workin'! But you got along pretty well. Did
some of the men have a real hard keeping up?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I don't know if they ever canned 'em for inefficiency. They
might demote 'em, give 'em a job sweepin' floors, something like that.

WEST: Was there favoritism? Were you expected to do things for the foreman?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, definitely, definitely. And some of the guys were chicken enough
to play up to the foreman. I couldn't prove this statement, but it'd been rumored that one
guy used to let his foreman sleep with his wife.

WEST: Oh, my! I'd heard of things like that, you know, favoritism and people would be
expected to really their jobs so they'd improve their conditions. Well, the union came in,
then, the AFL, and didn't do much for the men, apparently, in '34. Did you keep your
membership, though, in the union, all that time?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, I did.

WEST: Then the CIO came in, I guess, in '36. Did you join the CIO?

MAC GREGOR: As soon as the CIO opened, then things got different.

WEST: But you were still afraid to wear a button in '36.

MAC GREGOR: Well, after the CIO come in, I wore my button, so they could see it.

WEST: Before the strike?

MAC GREGOR: No, after the strike.

WEST: I'm thinking of the summer of '36, when Mortimer and then Bob Travis came in
to organize. Did you know Bob Travis?

MAC GREGOR: I never saw the man that I can recall. I'd heard a lot about him, and he
was a wonderful organizer, but it was claimed that he was Communist, and he didn't
want to be tainted as a Communist.

WEST: I see. So were there many people in Chevy 10 organized at the time of the
strike? Many union men there?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I'd say about a third.

WEST: How big a plant was Chevy 10 then? It was a sheet metal plant primarily?

MAC GREGOR: As the actual size of it, probably about what it is now. Well, I guess
they did make an addition. Oh, they probably employed three or four hundred people a

WEST: So it was relatively small, then, compared to Fisher or some of the really other
big plants. And you say it had about a third of the workforce organized.

MAC GREGOR: That's my guess. Course you couldn't tell exactly, either, because
some of 'em wore buttons, some didn't.

WEST: Did you meet in secret, then, when you were organizing?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, yeah. When I belonged to the AFL, we used to meet over there at
the Pengelly Building. Then when we got the CIO, why, we met over there on
Glenwood, in a small hall. Well, it'd formerly been a small store building.

WEST: Do you recall the names of any of the people who were your leaders in Chevy
10, in your plant, any other organizers?

MAC GREGOR: Well, the guy I recall being the big leader was Whitey Meuer, M-E-U-
E-R or somethin' like that. I don't know whether Whitey's still livin', but his home is in
Indiana, and I imagine three or four years after he retired he went back.

WEST: Chevy 10 did not strike when the others went down at first, apparently. My
understanding is that the…

MAC GREGOR: Well, that day that they had that went out on strike, then Chevy went
with 'em, but they didn't set in.

WEST: No. Well, my understanding is that just before New Year's, though, they had a
strike at Fisher 1 and Fisher 2. The Fisher Body plants went down, and they had indeed a
battle at Fisher 2 in mid-January or so. And my understanding is that all through that
month, Chevy 10, and all the Chevy plants, for that matter, were still operating. I
wondered what things were like in Chevy 10, when Fisher 1 and 2 were down.

MAC GREGOR: Well, everybody was kind of uneasy. They knew that something was

WEST: Did you feel that you would eventually go on strike too?

MAC GREGOR: Well, that we didn't know. It all depended on what the strategy was of
the leaders. I can tell you a funny one. They's a fellow that was on supervision, just
what you might term a lame foreman, over there in Plant 8. Well, the foremen over there,
general foremen, they had a bunch of clubs made up about that long, made out of oak,
and I imagine they thought tubing too, and he called all the supervision together. He
says, "Now, you go over and you take that plant away from those guys." This one fellow
that I knew, he says, "Okay," he says, "if you lead the way." That killed it.

WEST: That was after Chevy 4 was taken, I guess. In Chevy 10 were there any petitions
circulated of loyalty to the company, you know, by some of those that were opposed to
the strike, maybe supervision?

MAC GREGOR: I don't recall. I really don't recall whether they was or wasn't. I
couldn't say for sure.

WEST: But you were union all through that whole period.

MAC GREGOR: Yes, and I was shakin' in my boots.

WEST: There was this fight that they had at Fisher 2, called the Battle of the Bulls' Run,
Running Bulls, where the police used tear gas and they tried to kick 'em out of Fisher 2.
Did you see any of that action?

MAC GREGOR: No, I didn't, because the streets were barred over there. They had
National Guardsmen along there, and what you had to produce on the streets you couldn't
have done it. I lived, oh, four or five blocks from the place at that time I was working, a
rooming house. Unless you actually had business down there (I guess you had to have
identification), you weren't allowed down near there.

WEST: So you didn't get down there. But did the plant make preparations for
supervision, again? Did they make preparations for the possibility of a strike, you know?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I couldn't tell you whether this preparation was made before or
after the strike happened. But they did have steam pipes over there in Plant 10 left on the
docks so that they could train them on anybody that tried to rush the plant.

WEST: I see. Did you know a fellow named Lenz? Arnold Lenz? Apparently he was
the personnel director.

MAC GREGOR: Well, he was kind of a division superintendent. He didn't run the
whole place, but he run, as I recall, he was over all the sheet metal.

WEST: What sort of fellow was he? Do you remember?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I couldn't tell you. I never spoke to him in my life. All I know
is what I heard say. I assume that he was German-born, and he was kind of a pusher.

WEST: But it's interesting that, you say that after Chevrolet 4 was taken, they had that
diversion at Chevy 9, and then they did seize Chevy 4, you people in Chevy 10 did close
down operations, then. You didn't work after that. Were you on strike then?

MAC GREGOR: When that happened over in Plant 9, that's the day we pulled out.

WEST: So you didn't work, then, after that. Because you didn't sit down, did you picket
the place?

MAC GREGOR: Definitely. They had it all set up so equalize, that so many of you
picket so many hours, and then they always had to go out for donuts.

WEST: So you were on the picket line? It was outside, and it was winter. It must have
been pretty cold then.

MAC GREGOR: Oh, yeah. But we had steel drums, you know, and you get wood and
coal and put it in that, if it got too cold.

WEST: Did the other Chevrolet plants too that weren't involved, like Chevrolet 8 (you
mentioned Chevy 8), did they close down too?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, they all closed down.

WEST: They all closed down. They couldn't keep operating then after Chevy 9 and 4
were down. Well, that's interesting. When the strike, then, was settled, did things

MAC GREGOR: Oh, definitely. Course they was slow improving. Well, the first
contract was only a page long.

WEST: Did you notice any better relationship with the foreman? Did the foreman's
supervision treat you any better?

MAC GREGOR: Yes. I don't know if we had any better relationships, but the foremen
so bold on the given motors. They had to know where they stood first.

WEST: What was the composition of the workforce at Chevy 10. Were there a lot of
ethnic people in Chevrolet 10? Poles, Hungarians.

MAC GREGOR: Not too many.

WEST: Many Southerners?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, definitely. Definitely. That was the big thing. You know they
would advertise that there was openings down in the Southern papers when they was
laying off people up there. They wanted to keep a line up there at the employment office,
so you'd be afraid of your job.

WEST: So they did bring them up. I heard they trucked them up sometimes.

MAC GREGOR: Well, I don't know whether they trucked 'em up or how they got up
here. I guess some of 'em rode up on freight trains.


MAC GREGOR: They did convert to unionism. They were really for it, and they helped
organize those that didn't. I remember one guy especially. If you didn't belong to the
union, every time you passed you, "Well, when are you gonna join the union?"

WEST: So did you use any pressure, you know, to bring people into the union after t he
strike was over?

MAC GREGOR: Well, I would say yes.

WEST: You had some stubborn holdouts.

MAC GREGOR: Well, there's one fellow there, charged a lot of pressure. He was from
the South. What made him a good union man, they made a foreman out of him, and then
they busted him. Well, he got in it for the company ever after! He was a very staunch
Democrat, too. If you told him you was a Republican, boy, you better be ready to fight!

WEST: You had a grievance procedure after the strike set up, with a steward system and
that sort of thing. How did work?

MAC GREGOR: Well, you called your committeeman, and he would ask you your
problem. He'd take notes. As I understand, he had to take to take the grievance up to …,
whether you figured it had merit or not. But if he was convinced it had merit, why, you
had a better case.

WEST: You had a committee system, then, did you?

MAC GREGOR: Yes, that's right.

WEST: How many committeemen did you have then to represent the whole plant? Do
you remember?

MAC GREGOR: Each plant had a committeeman, and they also had alternates.

WEST: So you had one man, then, to represent all the people on one shift. Did it work
pretty well? Did you get your grievances sorted out?

MAC GREGOR: It worked pretty well.

WEST: Did you have any wildcat strikes?

MAC GREGOR: I was out on one wildcat strike. And, if I had it to do over again, I
wouldn't have done it, because if you go out on a wildcat, you're licked before you start,
because the union isn't gonna back you up on that, because you have a contract to go by.
If you don't abide by it, why, they ain't gonna go to bat for you.

WEST: But you did have some wildcats. This one that you were in, did you win your

MAC GREGOR: Oh, hell, no. We didn't get to first base.

WEST: What was it, do you remember what the grievance was?

MAC GREGOR: Well, they wanted decrease production. That was during the war,
World War II. They was one guy, kind of an agitator, and the rest of us didn't have guts
not to go along with him.

WEST: You mentioned that there was suspicion that Travis and others were
Communists. Were there others in the union that you felt were Communists at the time,
that played leading roles?

MAC GREGOR: I think that guy's name was Wyndham Mortimer, or something like
that. And it was never proven, but he was accused of bein' a Communist. Oh, and, by
the way, when we'd the picket line, the Daily Worker, the Communist paper, there was
always a fellow down there willin' to give you a paper if you wanted to accept it.

WEST: Oh, yeah? They were distributing the paper. Did you take one?

MAC GREGOR: No. And the guy that was leading the picket, he kicked one of 'em out.

WEST: That's interesting, because, later on, apparently Homer Martin tried to ease some
of those people he thought were Communists out of the union and the organizers, and I
guess Travis was one of those who went, when that split came between the Martin and
the CIO people…

MAC GREGOR: Well, at the beginning, they didn't have too many men trained as
organizers, and they was glad to accept most anybody. And I imagine that's how those
guys got in. They were good organizers, no question about that. But you don't know
exactly what their motives might be.

WEST: Were you, when the split came, did you get involved one way or the other with
the pro-Martin or the people who were against Martin?

MAC GREGOR: No, no, no. They might have been higher up.

WEST: But you didn't get involved in that at all. There were some other strikes in Flint,
I understand, after the main Sit-Down Strike. There was even a strike at Penney's, where
some of the girls in the retail clerks sat down and occupied Penney's. And there was a
strike at the Durant Hotel and I guess Consumers Power, and there was a strike out in
Owosso. Did you get involved in any of those post-strike activities?


WEST: Well, is there anything else that I haven't covered that you can think of
concerning this period?

MAC GREGOR: Where I boarded room, there was a young fellow up there. He was
involved in the Sit-Down. And he had formerly been a foreman, and they busted him.
That's what made him…

WEST: So some of the people who were active in the union were foremen who had been

MAC GREGOR: He was a Polish fellow. And, you know, he never spoke of General
Motors as one word. It was always "god damn" General Motors. Remember Jack?

WEST: What was his name? Jack?

MAC GREGOR: Jack Zynda.

WEST: Jack Zynda. He was in the union at the time? Is he still alive?

MAC GREGOR: Oh, yeah. He lives out by Owosso now.

WEST: Oh, he'd be interesting…He was a veteran of these times.

MAC GREGOR: You come up to our retirees' meeting, and you might meet him there.

WEST: I'd like to talk to him. Was he working in Chevy 10, then?

MAC GREGOR: No, he was in 4. He was one of the Sit-Downers.

WEST: Oh, so he was one of the Sit-Downers, and he was Polish background.

MRS. MAC GREGOR: The meting's the second Thursday of the month at eleven
o'clock, at … Come down there. There's a lot of fellows there, some Sit-Downers, some
like he did. There's all kinds of 'em. They'd be glad to have you.

WEST: Well, thank you very much. I might just do that.

MRS. MAC GREGOR: Then you could see the plaques they have, ready to dedicate. I
think they're trying to get one for Fisher Body on Saginaw Street and the other one, I think,…